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Author Topic: Spoiler Warning for Star Wars  (Read 2315 times)

Iltsuger

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Spoiler Warning for Star Wars
« on: December 22, 2015, 12:51:41 AM »
Reply if you've seen Star Wars :)

I have, but I won't say much until I know people want to talk about it :)

GLI

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Re: Spoiler Warning for Star Wars
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2015, 08:59:07 AM »
Reply if you've seen Star Wars :)

I have, but I won't say much until I know people want to talk about it :)



SPOILER WARNING!

Stormtroopers are "black characters" and Rey is daughter of LS... ;D
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Christian Knudsen

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Re: Spoiler Warning for Star Wars
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2015, 01:13:42 PM »
Saw it yesterday. Absolutely loved the first 45 minutes or so, then I became increasingly indifferent the more it started piling on familiar faces and plot points. Left the theater not really sure how I felt about it.

GLI

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Re: Spoiler Warning for Star Wars
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2015, 10:00:20 PM »
Left the theater not really sure how I felt about it.

This new stuff must fit in "our imagination" of old movies. We need some time. Maybe some more views/watching of movie again. Maybe next movies will help. In my feelings it was too few time for that many things to show.

Before watching SW:FA I've played KOTOR1 and KOTOR2. I've read two books only and it was from "Extended Universe" which was canceled by Disney Company. Not much info from SW Universe but... it helped to understand a little more e.g. ending of movie (see: spoiler above).

Jakku (desert planet where movie started) was planet experienced by big war. Where many people died (was killed/murdered) there Force isn't "easy to read/feel" so it can help to hide something... or somebody.
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Christian Knudsen

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Re: Spoiler Warning for Star Wars
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2015, 11:08:17 PM »
The thing is, I loved all the new stuff. Loved the new characters. The worldbuilding. It was the old rehashed stuff that I didn't like much. Like yet another Death Star type superweapon. And another trench run. I don't know why they felt they had to redo all that stuff instead of just relying on the new characters. Maybe they feared that the movie wouldn't do as well if it didn't have all the old characters and a recycled plot from A New Hope and Jedi.

And yeah, I also feel that the movie tried to cram too much stuff into its runtime.

I knew about the final battle between the Rebellion and the Empire taking place on Jakku, but I didn't know it could be used to hide something powerful in the Force. Interesting. I've read speculation that in VIII and IX, Ren is going to be the character on the Dark Side of the Force, Finn is going to show Force sensitivity and be on the Light Side, and Rey will be in the middle -- someone really powerful that's able to tap directly into the Force without it being neither Dark nor Light side. So it would make sense to hide her on Jakku. The movie was somewhat suggesting that she's Luke's daughter, but I think she also might just have been an apprentice of his alongside Ren and she was the only one to survive Ren's slaughter (apparently in the novelization, Ren says "It is you" during their confrontation in the climax, suggesting that he knows her). We'll see. :)

Iltsuger

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Re: Spoiler Warning for Star Wars
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2015, 12:40:57 PM »
GLI, are you saying you haven't seen any of the original movies there, or do you mean you did all those things recently?

Will write more later... I had to stop, I think I may wind up writing an essay if I don't control myself.

GLI

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Re: Spoiler Warning for Star Wars
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2015, 02:04:55 PM »
GLI, are you saying you haven't seen any of the original movies there, or do you mean you did all those things recently?

Heh! Original 2nd (V) and 3rd (VI) movies I saw in theater/cinema in middle 80's (1985-87 I'm not sure). I've had some problems to enter theater because movies were allowed for 12 or older and back then I was c.a. 10-11 year old when I saw "Empire Strickes Back" for the first time. Original "Star Wars" (IV: New Hope) I saw in TV in 1990 or 1991.

I saw new episodes too (with Darth Binks). I don't like them because they're childish and Jar Jar Binkish... until I've read this article:
https://www.reddit.com/comments/3qvj6w
It's pure genius! If George Lucas had enough guts to continue this thread then it could be really good. Extremely good! Such potential. And it all was wasted...
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Iltsuger

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Re: Spoiler Warning for Star Wars
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2015, 12:40:50 PM »
I liked that mostly (ostensibly, hopefully) non-Force users did the important things to take down the latest superweapon. Could have done without a superweapon that so obviously parroted the Death Stars (my idea was about a hidden ship permanently in hyperspace that attacked planets by dropping stuff nearby that would crash into the planet. So they'd have to hunt after it and fight it in hyperspace or sabotage it to force it out of hyperspace. Just a little more difference would be appreciated)

I liked that they humanized a stormtrooper for once in the movies. Since that was one of the first moments that was a big bonus for me.

A planet full of ruins and wreckage is a dream for me, so I loved Jakku. All of the planets were fun, even if most of them were rushed through. They short changed the Hosnian system to the point where you didn't really understand how important it was. I was confused since it seemed like Coruscant; they did a prequel-y thing where they didn't establish how important the thing was. Same with how we didn't understand the relative power of the Resistance, the First Order, and the New Republic, or how vulnerable they were. Even a line of dialog or two could have covered this if they'd plopped it down in the right spot.

What makes this movie exceptional for me, why I can understand why people put it way up in the hierarchy, is that the characters are interesting. They don't need to be terribly deep, but they need to be people who are just compelling enough that you want to see what happens to them. Nothing terribly fancy was required, but every time you get a person who is merely a plot vehicle and not reacting to the world around them in a surprising or interesting way, you'll lose viewers. I liked Finn, I liked Poe, I liked Rey though I think she suffered from being more of a plot vehicle than the others, I can see why people liked Kylo Ren, although I didn't connect with the guy for whatever reason. These are all new characters, and they worked enough for me to want to see them in more situations. In a way the filmmakers' jobs were easier because they didn't have to connect the dots back to an existing film franchise, but since so much of Star Wars has become self-referential and locked into patterns, any change was welcome, and any originality, however small, made things feel like they could still expand.

Harrison Ford seemed genuinely invested in the character. I bought that it was old Solo, which was a relief. I didn't quite buy his motivation in the final scenes, not just his confrontation at the chasm, but the fact that he didn't have any commandos as part of his team. "Sure, I'll just take these kids with me. It'll be fine."

Agreed that the movie felt very busy. Part of the reason I think people are rewatching it is that there was a bit of information overload. I picked up on most of the major stuff, but I was also busy trying to process certain things (just because I was sitting there thinking "holy crap, I'm watching a star wars movie") and thus missing little events. Some of the stuff could have been clipped to make it calm down a bit. And I know that some people love every tiny reference they made but it took me out of it, especially when Finn kept running into things on the Millenium Falcon. The ship itself was enough. Speaking of the Falcon, it seemed way too limber and indestructible this time around.

Frankly, though, I didn't much care that it mirrored IV in general structure (beyond the lazy superweapon thing, which was a bit depressing) because I was interested in how the specific characters were reacting to things. I think that's where the "rhyming poetry" philosophy is tested. You don't want similar characters experiencing the same things, you have different characters experiencing similar (or sometimes completely different, I hope) things and see how they react. That said, I think it's OK if they break from the formula more next time, except...

I have a sneaking suspicion that the next one is going to mirror Empire. Hopefully not too closely. We've got potentially two people who are going to train in the Force (though it may be that we largely skip them for one or both, it's hard to say). Unsure if the First Order will grow in relative strength now that the current Republic capital is apparently toast, so they could be pursuing the resistance. We'll maybe get some revelations from anti-Yoda, revelations from troubled-Luke, see a rogue Phasma bounty-hunter style character, and hopefully no superweapon. The second in the first two trilogies also had a false eden (Kamino, Bespin), and while I like it when they go in new directions I really love that theme and hope they revisit it.

But what will be cool is if they expand upon the Force philosophy a bit, maybe take it away from the stark good/evil dichotomy into something more interesting, or at the very least, like you said CK, have a strange combination of both.

GLI, I find the Darth Binks stuff pretty amusing, although I heartily doubt Lucas was going there. He tends to telegraph intentions like that a bit more. It does make revisiting the prequels more amusing, though.

My reaction to the film was ultimately me grinning a lot, and me enjoying a good portion of it, though I felt a lot of little things could have been improved to make it better. I need to see it again still to feel stronger one way or the other, but I felt that it was properly reverent toward Star Wars, though I felt like someone else's interpretation, so little things were off where they maybe shouldn't have been, and habits picked up during the special editions and prequels were mostly, thankfully dropped. I'm optimistic, but I hope that they don't keep piling on Force-user legacies and let the muggles share the spotlight! :)

Christian Knudsen

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Re: Spoiler Warning for Star Wars
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2015, 03:26:01 PM »
I watched it a second time. It still feels quite rushed, especially the second half, but I liked it a lot better this time.

Iltsuger

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Re: Spoiler Warning for Star Wars
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2015, 03:57:29 PM »
God, it looks like I wrote an essay anyway!!

I'm worried I'll like it less, now that I've sat and analyzed everything so much. I guess I'll have something to say should I see it again, assuming I haven't exhausted my ability to type more by then. Will be going with someone, assuming plans don't fall through, who was less than impressed by it. Should be an interesting contrast.

Christian Knudsen

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Re: Spoiler Warning for Star Wars
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2015, 04:22:47 PM »
Heh, you might end up switching opinions. :)

Iltsuger

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Re: Spoiler Warning for Star Wars
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2016, 09:00:03 PM »
Seems most of my opinions were kind of confirmed. It was easier to forgive the callbacks this time. I think Poe was a bit too perfect, Finn is still super, got a bit more used to Kylo Ren, Rey's imperfections were a bit clearer to me now than they were the first time, still like Maz, Luke's expression at the end was pretty cool now that I actually caught it.

edit: was also able to accept Leia more, and Ren more. Harrison Ford's weird hand gestures were a bit more distracting this time but I still bought his performance.

And the fact that I'm talking about the characters means they must have done something right.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 09:51:15 PM by Iltsuger »

Cthulhu

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Re: Spoiler Warning for Star Wars
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2016, 03:18:57 PM »
Now I am among you as well. Saw it for New Year's eve.

Quote from: ck
Like yet another Death Star type superweapon. And another trench run.
Yeah, and they even joke about it, "what do we shoot to make it blow up?".

But I think they just wanted to play it safe. It was very much a meld of episode 4,5,6. Even had the confrontation on the walkway Darth vs. Luke's hand / Kylo Ren vs. Han Solo's gut.

Quote from: ck
The movie was somewhat suggesting that she's Luke's daughter,
Really? Because of the light saber thingy?

Quote from: Iltsuger
I can see why people liked Kylo Ren, although I didn't connect with the guy for whatever reason
I thought he had an uncanny resemblance to Zach Braff in some angles.

Speaking of references, "Made the kessel run in under 12 parsecs". They repeated that little blunder, this time on purpose for sure.

I do wonder how two characters who never seen a light saber before could be so good at using them?

Also, that Hitler-like First Order scene with the red banners and speech in front of the troops was a bit too much of "Look how evil we are, we look just like Nazis"

Iltsuger

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Re: Spoiler Warning for Star Wars
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2016, 12:00:22 PM »
The "playing it safe" feel makes me wonder what Lucas had proposed. I don't trust his instincts pretty much past Empire but at least he might have had something a bit weirder in mind.

Luke seems like the favored choice for Rey's father-side parent, partly because her setup sort of mirrors his. There's an uncomfortable (for me at least) tendency in the movies (although it could have not gone this way in the earlier movies) to make everybody interrelated AND have Force ability be hereditary. If Jedi were following what was their apparent code, and not makin' babies, then it would be more an anomalous talent, and I think it's more interesting if it's just a thing you work hard at and become good at despite one's talent or lack of talent, rather than just some weird thing granted by space fey. Luke doesn't strike me as a traditional Jedi at all, so he'd skip that bit and follow his heart, only to find his kid was unnaturally sensitive and decide she was in danger if she was associated with him. Could have been before his students were slaughtered.

That said, I hope they surprise us.

Kylo Ren reminded me of some other actor, Andy something. Different guys, obviously.

The 12 parsecs thing was I think explained in a way that makes some sort of sense, but yeah, I'm pretty sure it was an after-the-fact cover-up. Pretty much the way people use light years as a measure of time rather than distance, though I think that's becoming rarer.

The First Order stuff was heavy handed but it didn't bother me much. It did feel a bit oddly speechy, though. My big trouble was in taking Hux seriously as a character, so on that part my eyes just sort of rolled and I waited for it to be over. That and I was distracted by the new badguy officer hats. It made me wonder if there was some First Order clothing designer that was like "OK, something close to the old Imperial hat but with more zing!" Maybe ratty old imperial uniforms with a few new symbols or something? Medals? Make them the badguy version of rebels against the republic, as others have said?

Cthulhu

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Re: Spoiler Warning for Star Wars
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2016, 01:07:26 PM »
I think it's a quite boring and unimaginative way to try to make Ray more legitimate as main character by saying she's the daughter of Luke. It's like saying "hey, she's almost Luke, so this is almost the original Star Wars". I'd like her to stand on her own, without any heritage from Luke. Also, did Luke abandon her on that planet? She had childhood memories of being abandoned by her parents.