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GLI

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"Medic! We need a medic over here!"
« on: September 21, 2011, 12:22:19 AM »
[Previously on Bug Reports]

Quote from: "Christian Knudsen"
Yep, definitely. MedKits will be added. I just need to figure out how they should work. I don't want them to render AutoDocs useless, so they should just work as a patch up to keep you from dying right away. Maybe you can only use them to make critical wounds not critical (perhaps even with a chance of the wound becoming critical again?). I suppose they should also be useful for decreasing your stunned value? And poison, when that gets implemented? Maybe have three different functions like in X-Com: bandages for critical wounds, stimpacks for stunning and antidotes for poisoning.


So far it looks that this game will not have any paramedic in a team... because there is no team, freelancers! Well, in this case we need proper medical treatment for Player's Character.

This is just a game, so we don't need to care about reality of wounds and "game's realism" allows to walk/flight for few hours with bleeding wounds. Players' characters are just bunch of Black Knights... or let's assume that in XXVIII century space pilots/freelancers are using some kind of "NanoBioMedTec" which is helping to heal them a little (or at least not let them die too quickly).



AFAIR there are four degrees for injuries and wounds (what player can see after "AutoDoc" scan) in present game (v0.7.1.3):
a) 1st degree - "grey dot/cut" or "o" (small or old almost healed wound of 2nd degree),
b) 2nd degree - "red dot/cut" or "o" (serious wound or old almost healed critical wound; two steps of healing in AutoDoc),
c) 3rd degree - critical wound (wound is "flashing" because it's bleeding; you can even bled to death if your health is low enough; three steps of healing in AutoDoc),
d) 4th degree (for limbs) - crippled arm or leg (is gray and PsC can't use it).



Let's try to name and classify injuries players' characters can (in present version) or could (in some future version) have because of used in-game weapons:
a) 1st class (status "Green"; don't cry, it's just a scratch):
- flesh wound; it's not deep but still takes out some of your health,
- burn; after flesh wound by laser or smoke grenade if exploded at feet,
b) 2nd class (status "Yellow"; yes, you're injured):
- injury by arm/leg hit,
- injury by knife (cut),
- injury by knife (puncture, stab wound),
- injury by gun/laser/shrapnel (inlet only),
- injury by gun/laser/shrapnel (inlet and outlet),
c) 3rd class (status "Red"; it's critical wound, you're bleeding):
- injury by knife (cut); some artery or vital organ was hit,
- injury by knife (puncture, stab wound); some artery or vital organ was hit,
- injury by gun/laser/shrapnel (inlet only);  some artery, vital organ or bone was hit,
- injury by gun/laser/shrapnel (inlet and outlet); some artery, vital organ or bone was hit,
d) 4th class (status "Purple"; are you still breathing?):
- crippled limb; caused by powerful hit/shot at bone (PsC can't use this "gray" limb at all)
- amputation; caused by very powerful hit/shot at bone (PsC lost this limb or its part... but still can fight like Black Knight!)
e) "Black" means instant death and in this case players' characters can't diagnose such "status" so there is no need to write about it. Right?

In above description "colors" are assigned to SINGLE hit, shot, stab/cut. I mean that such injury/wound for 100% health player's character will result in "one-shot" lose/decrease of status depends on class of injury/wound... (Damn! I should someday learn properly this bloody English language!)

There are (or could/will be) another incidents:
- blinded (temporarily by pepper gas or permanent by e.g. knife); like right now PsC is loosing visibility for some time,
- stunned (by stunrod or by head punch during unarmed combat); up to 99% PsC will be loosing consciousness which means longer time of reaction and/or lack of possibility to use arm/leg,
- poisoned (by e.g. Retro's weapon); until antidote will be used (MedKit, SickBay, AutoDoc) or until poison will be in body/blood PsC will be loosing health (even up to death).

Retro's biological weapon...like s.h.i.t.-stick:

(Sorry, didn't fund English version)

For all above injuries/wounds or incidents during combat I propose 5 levels of medical treatment:

1) First-Aid kit - "bundled" with every ship (actually doesn't heal but PsC will be bandaged with eventual sling for an arm); during "character combat" PsC could be injured and without MedKit (or AutoDoc) in a range he/she must return to ship for "basic medical treatment" (bandages/sling only); it slightly helps "natural" healing only; present death-time for critical wounds should be at least twice shorter or healing time for injuries should be at least twice longer and to make it "normal" PsC should use First-Aid Kit (automatically by visiting ship or intentionally in closet inventory by separate function).

2) MedKit (or MedPack) - expensive but mobile device which allows to heal e.g. during combat; allows to completely heal 1st, lowers 2nd and 3rd degree of injuries/wounds by one for some amount of time; allows to partially "clear" eyes after pepper spray, makes more conscious or stops poison damage for some time; MedKits could have few "healing" hits (like X-Com version); accessible through "Equipment/Inventory" screen by separate tab (if previously placed in backpack).

3) Sick Bay (ship's infirmary for cap-ships only) - very expensive small AutoDoc for capital ships which allows to completely heal 1st and 2nd degree of injuries, lowers 3rd degree by one for twice longer time than MedKit; allows to "clear" eyes more than MedKit; makes much more conscious than MadKit (complete "un-stun" for limbs); stops poison damage and lowers time of its presence in body; allows to treat broken/slightly cripled limbs (makes usable for some amount of time); separate room on ship (like AutoDoc at base); unlimited "healing" hits.

4) AutoDoc - works almost like present AutoDoc; heals all degrees if injuries/wounds; completely removes blind and stun effects; removes poison effects but not all poison from body (if PsC will be poisoned again in short time then previous poisoning status will be summed); heals slightly crippled climbs; can't replace completely crippled or amputated limbs (or parts like ears); can't remove scars;

5) Hospital - the ultimate healing solution in "Ascii Sector"; PsC can heal every injury and could be able to heal too much crippled limbs and replace amputated limbs (or even internal organs; including damaged eyes). Hospital could offer "cosmetic surgery" too e.g. when nose or ear will be injured or removal of scars after flesh wounds ("charisma" could depend on "scars"). Allows to completely remove poison effects with "cleaning of organism" (detox; including drug's side effects).

So far this game has only one Hospital but I think that capital city/planet should have one too.

Injuries and wounds which were lowered by one degree for some amount of time can't be "healed" many times in a row. Such time must pass by to "heal" that injury/wound next time. Lowering degree of injury/wound means that "natural" healing of particular PsC is again "in work" (is working).

I wonder what could happen to Player's Character if/when will be completely (100%) stunned. NPC could beat/hit/shot to death? Or maybe NPC will be "stupid" and will leave PsC and start plundering boarded ship? Maybe NPC will just steal some/all stuff and disappear? Who knows... except of developer. :heh:
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Iltsuger

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Re: "Medic! We need a medic over here!"
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2011, 01:14:48 PM »
Maybe in terms of everything below the AutoDoc there should be a Bio Gel or something that the players have to stock up on, like the nanites, which is a limited resource that drops significantly in the case of massive wounds. So all the medikits and sick bays don't disappear, but they do have things they need to stock up on to keep useful. First aid kits will probably be one-use disposable things.

You did a lot of work on this. Excellent, GLI.

I'd want to add that you could fix other people, assuming they were willing subjects, who are on board. People like passengers or rescued pilots who don't oppose your faction could also get treatment.  Maybe even enemy pilots you rescue and need to transport alive, you can prolong their lives until you can get them to prison.

This connects back to a previous idea I had where missions could actually include you rescuing and reviving people to help diversify missions.

GLI

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Re: "Medic! We need a medic over here!"
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2011, 03:56:50 PM »
Quote from: "Iltsuger"
Maybe in terms of everything below the AutoDoc there should be a Bio Gel or something that the players have to stock up on, like the nanites, which is a limited resource that drops significantly in the case of massive wounds.


Well... Something like "ammo" for MedKit? Expensive devise could be "reloaded" with expensive "MedGel" but such clip should be heavy because of container. "MedGel" as content should be light to not make MedKit heavier. It means that MedKit could be reloaded on a ship only.

Quote from: "Iltsuger"
So all the medikits and sick bays don't disappear, but they do have things they need to stock up on to keep useful. First aid kits will probably be one-use disposable things.


"Sick Bay" should be a separate room for small (actually the same size but lower functionality; like described above) AutoDoc on a capital ship so there is no option for "disappearing". IMHO its resources should be automatically "reloaded" after each landing like oxygen, water, food... and jump fuel... :pinch:

IMHO "First-Aid Kit" is something mandatory on every ship so it shouldn't be " one-use disposable things". Maybe such function could be connected to PsC's cabin bed? It could be possible to sleep in own ship but "recovery" should be much slower than in Hotel. Actually I don't see any use for Hotels without fatigue indicator (right now it's better to take some e.g. easy going transport missions than sleep).

There could be "MedGelShot" (Stimpack?!) cheaper and one-use only version of MedKit but for injuries and wounds only (not for "blind/poison/stun" effects).

Quote from: "Iltsuger"
You did a lot of work on this. Excellent, GLI.


Thanks! It took me over two days to write it and biggest problem was proper translation. E.g. at first I thought that flesh wound is something more serious than "just a scratch"... :heh:

Quote from: "Iltsuger"
I'd want to add that you could fix other people, assuming they were willing subjects, who are on board. People like passengers or rescued pilots who don't oppose your faction could also get treatment.  Maybe even enemy pilots you rescue and need to transport alive, you can prolong their lives until you can get them to prison.


Yes, I hope that future version of the game will allow us to heal NPCs (both: hostile and friendly). Especially when we'll be able to transfer friendly NPCs to captured ships.

Quote from: "Iltsuger"
This connects back to a previous idea I had where missions could actually include you rescuing and reviving people to help diversify missions.


Well, actually it could be a part of "Rescue Mission" from fixers: find ejected pilot, heal him/her if required and deliver to right base.

I hope for some "automatic capturing of hostiles" too... :eeeee:

What? The game could be too easy?! No... if such hostile NPCs could talk with us to e.g. offer a bribe or reveal their true identity (undercover cop). From some point of a gameplay such scooped pilots aren't real threat for PsC with maxed stats.
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VincentFirePony

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Re: "Medic! We need a medic over here!"
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2011, 10:50:48 PM »
Aaaaannnd I'm back. As much as I love minecraft, I need a better pc to play 1.8 and up.
Medical stuff huh? This is kinda my field of expertise.
A Medkit would, ideally, consist of pain meds, gauze, bandages, etc. For critical wounds, the medkit could make it a wound for certain period of time (e.g. the pain meds wear off, you bleed thru the bandage, etc(keeps you alive long enough to get to an autodoc))
Quote from: "GLI"
Let's try to name and classify injuries players' characters can (in present version) or could (in some future version) have because of used in-game weapons:
a) 1st class (status "Green"; don't cry, it's just a scratch):
- flesh wound; it's not deep but still takes out some of your health,
- burn; after flesh wound by laser or smoke grenade if exploded at feet,
b) 2nd class (status "Yellow"; yes, you're injured):
- injury by arm/leg hit,
- injury by knife (cut),
- injury by knife (puncture, stab wound),
- injury by gun/laser/shrapnel (inlet only),
- injury by gun/laser/shrapnel (inlet and outlet),
c) 3rd class (status "Red"; it's critical wound, you're bleeding):
- injury by knife (cut); some artery or vital organ was hit,
- injury by knife (puncture, stab wound); some artery or vital organ was hit,
- injury by gun/laser/shrapnel (inlet only); some artery, vital organ or bone was hit,
- injury by gun/laser/shrapnel (inlet and outlet); some artery, vital organ or bone was hit,
d) 4th class (status "Purple"; are you still breathing?):
- crippled limb; caused by powerful hit/shot at bone (PsC can't use this "gray" limb at all)
- amputation; caused by very powerful hit/shot at bone (PsC lost this limb or its part... but still can fight like Black Knight!)
e) "Black" means instant death and in this case players' characters can't diagnose such "status" so there is no need to write about it. Right?


From an EMT standpoint, this would require some coding: a general layout of major/minor arteries and possibly the 12 cranial nerves (maybe I'm getting ahead of myself on that), vital organs (e.g. lungs, heart, brain, stomach, intestines, etc). And then from there, the type of injury: e.g. laceration or puncture. Or a "gunshot" wound (in this case the machine pistol and the other non energy weapons). Or a burn/puncture wound (the laser/energy weapons), but that would probably be a LOT of variables to program. The limbs and bones require different amounts of pressure/force for injury as well. (e.g. it takes 13 lbs to break the Clavicle(collar bone))

The "purple" category can definitely consist of crushed limbs, and also collapsed lungs. A spleen laceration would be a purple injury too, since the spleen holds a large amount of blood.

The "black" category would be a spinal injury in the c3-c5 area, or the t3-t5 area, or any Lumbar vertebrae area.
more to follow when i get to my laptop on the internet, i'm tethering right now
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Lexus

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Re: "Medic! We need a medic over here!"
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2011, 01:21:58 AM »
aah... too much jargon!  :pinch:

Seriously though... This sounds great. I'd love to see a better ground combat damage system. BTW what's wrong with band-aids?  :eeeee:

VincentFirePony

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Re: "Medic! We need a medic over here!"
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2011, 08:31:10 PM »
I've been playing a bunch of roguelikes and I would would like to see an rpg-like system in asciisector, possibly
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VincentFirePony

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Re: "Medic! We need a medic over here!"
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2011, 04:52:05 AM »
Quote from: "Lexus"
aah... too much jargon!  

Is that directed towards my EMS-related words? My apologies if it is, but I have this EMS knowledge and I need to use it, lest I lose it lol. I've already pretty much forgotten 90% of the medication info I learned....
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Lexus

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Re: "Medic! We need a medic over here!"
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2011, 05:23:07 AM »
No need to apologize. Its just my medical knowledge tops at using bandaids.
Programming jargon on the other hand... 8)

VincentFirePony

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Re: "Medic! We need a medic over here!"
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2011, 05:53:56 AM »
Programming jargon? :?
And yes as always., excellent job on the info gathering GLI (apologies for not saying sooner, last night is a blur of rum and pepsi...). With that research you did and my medical knowledge we could help CK make a better damage system. BTW what is PsC?
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Acsidol

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Re: "Medic! We need a medic over here!"
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2012, 07:36:41 PM »
Quote from: Iltsuger
Maybe even enemy pilots you rescue and need to transport alive, you can prolong their lives until you can get them to prison.
Quote


Kinda off topic but I liked this line.   Having Prisons on Federation worlds would be a good alternative to selling pirate slaves back to the pirates.  You could instead get a bounty from the federation.  Not as much as slaves are worth but perhaps it would get you reputation.


I like the OP's ideas even though it was kind of counfusing.

I see it simply as a MedKit reducing a critical. Effectivally stopping the bleeding.

Perhaps when you use it, it could bring up a AutoDoc like screen to allow you select what you want to use it on.

A critical wound, blindness, poison, or stun.

Since I maxed my unarmed skill nobody can blind or stun me.  Npc's lacking random skills dissapoints me. /side tangent