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Ascii Sector => Quest Database => Topic started by: Christian Knudsen on August 06, 2009, 03:32:51 PM

Title: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Christian Knudsen on August 06, 2009, 03:32:51 PM
Download (http://www.asciisector.net/forum/quests/ctha1.qst)

Description: This quest was inspired by a Sci-Fi movie (look at the title, and no, it's not "The Running Man"), and it has a good deal of references to other science fiction books, movies, and computer games. It will take you across the galaxy in a deadly hunt for the Runners. I've made it so it won't necessarily add anything to your criminal record, if you are careful.

Difficulty: Average

(The difficulty is based on completing the quest in a well-equipped Centurion.)
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Quaker2k9 on August 06, 2009, 11:00:17 PM
It's the movie I hoped it would be! Sweet!

But I think I got stuck somewhere... I've retired numbers three and four from my list and went back to the mining base to meet my client, but I can't find him! What am I doing wrong?
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Christian Knudsen on August 07, 2009, 12:32:27 AM
I know that Cthulhu experienced this a few times when programming the quest, but I wasn't getting it and he didn't get it the last couple of times he tested. Can you send me a save game, so I can take a look at what's going on?
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Cthulhu on August 07, 2009, 05:55:58 AM
Damn!
I thought that problem was gone. That scene loads when you kill Zhora, so save a game just before you talk to J.F. (or before Zhora jumps you) and try again (sorry about this). I haven't been able to recreate this strange behavior the last few times I played the quest, but I know what your talking about.

Don't know if Christian wants a saved game before or after that scene has loaded though?

EDIT: grammar.
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Quaker2k9 on August 07, 2009, 06:08:31 AM
I've already sent Christian a Save, unfortunately I only have one where the scene in question is already loaded (Zhora and Rachael retired). I'll later re-start the whole quest and make sure to save at the right time, then see if I can avoid the problem :)

Don't worry, I'm sure the problem will be identified and retired, too  :D

Something I spontaneously searched for one minute after reading your quest's description, to put me into the right mood:

YouTube Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTqu3txMgXg)
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Christian Knudsen on August 07, 2009, 07:41:39 AM
Thanks. I'll check out the status of the quest variables to see if the correct scene has been loaded at all.
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Christian Knudsen on August 07, 2009, 08:18:09 AM
Hmmm... Commander Jameson's character's template value is 2. That's why he isn't loaded when landing at the base. I'm trying to figure out why this is. His character's template value must not be reset correctly somewhere...

Anyway, a temporary fix will probably be to set his template value to 0 in the scene where he isn't loaded.
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Christian Knudsen on August 07, 2009, 08:34:36 AM
I've found the bug. It causes a quest character's template value to not always be set to zero. It's fixed for the next release, but in the meantime it's probably a good idea to always set your quest character's template values to 0 to make sure.
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Cthulhu on August 07, 2009, 08:41:09 AM
You still have my source code right? Could you set Cmdr. J:s value to 0 in the scene "Briefing", that would make my quest playable on this version as well, right?
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Christian Knudsen on August 07, 2009, 08:43:38 AM
Yes, that should work. I'll do it for all characters that haven't got a template value different from 0 just to make sure. Quaker will still have to continue the game from a scene before this scene is loaded, though.
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Christian Knudsen on August 07, 2009, 08:52:25 AM
I've updated the quest file available for download. It now resets all quest character's values to 0 (except for Rachael and Zhora). As Zhora has a template value of 2, I'm pretty sure the bug was transferring her template value over to Jameson's - that's why it didn't happen until after Zhora's scene.
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Quaker2k9 on August 07, 2009, 09:00:47 AM
Cool, I'll check it out as soon as I'm done fixing that monster scene I'm currently working on.
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Quaker2k9 on August 07, 2009, 09:36:59 AM
Oh-oh!

"Unable to load quest! You need at least v0.6 to load this quest....."
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Christian Knudsen on August 07, 2009, 10:19:22 AM
D'oh! I compiled with my dev version, which is 0.6. Try it again now. :)
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Quaker2k9 on August 07, 2009, 11:23:27 PM
Alright, I've finished it! My review:

You've done a man's job there, Cthulhu! This definitely sets the benchmark for sheer awesomeness very high.

I'm not going to comment on the story too much, the implications are well known to anyone familiar with the SF genre... It doesn't get much better than Blade Runner. There is one thing that intrigues me, though:

In the beginning, the Commander says there are six (6) runaways. Let's make a quick count: Leon (1); Nomad/Clovis (2); Rachael (3), Zhora (4); Pris (5), "Mad Man" Hauer (6), Roy (7)..... Something to think about. Is this an error or have I just retired someone who was actually a real human being? I love this. Wasn't there a similar kind of "error" in the movie, with one replicant more declared than counted?
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Quaker2k9 on August 07, 2009, 11:55:58 PM
Does anyone of you have the new, expensive 5-disc release of Blade Runner? It's worth getting for this alternate ending alone:

Scene : In Deckard's car, driving on the old mountain road up north.

Rachael: "Are you and I lovers?"
Deckard: "Yes."
Rachael smiles.
Rachael: "Did you know your wife a long time?"
Deckard grins.
Deckard: "I thought I did... What's a long time?"
Rachael: "Forever."
Rachael: "You know what I think? I think today has been the best day of my life..."
Rachael: "You know what else I think? That you and I were made for eachother."
Deckard freezes for a second, looks at Rachael, shocked.
Rachael leans back, smiles.

Fade to End Theme.
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Cthulhu on August 08, 2009, 08:30:47 AM
Rutger Hauer is not a Nexus-6.
As you can tell, all the runners have a "(Nexus-6)" in their last names (Except the Nomad/Gully Foyle). I needed two guys in the final scene to keep you from shoot Ray Batty before he gives his speech, and to give him something to shoot at.

I've taken some liberties, like, in the movie the Blade Runners were the cops right?

(By the way, the book (Do androids dream of electric sheep) is nothing like the movie, if I remember correctly, I read it a few years ago, and it was mostly about Deckard wanting to buy a pet, a real pet, not an android one. But I don't really remember it at all.)

I just came to a great realization, in just a few years time there will be people out there, that's never seen the original Blade runner, just the DVD -Directors cut, without Harrison Fords narrating voice!

And whats even worse, the same people will think that the original star wars is with those horrendously atrocious poorly made digital special effects that George Lucas added during the late 90's. It's like Cartman says in South Park: "What ever, I do what ever I want, I digitally added Jabba the Hut to the original Star Wars movies"
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Quaker2k9 on August 08, 2009, 09:52:46 AM
Computer effects are really horrible... The guys producing these movies so inflationary really aren't thinking.

Look at the great models in Blade Runner, these scenes really pass the test of time and will always look good.

Have you watched Jurassic Park 1 recently? When it came out, the animations were praised very much. Today, as the quality of CGI has improved and the audience has gotten used to looking at animated stuff, the dinos in JP1 look awful. Pixels everywhere, don't feel natural at all, you can easily tell where they put together live-film and effects even if you want to believe the illusion.
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: WorkerDrone on August 09, 2009, 12:07:19 PM
Well. I must say, this was one lengthy quest, but I finished it, and I enjoyed it to the fullest extent that I could. I loved the...well, I really liked the great job you did here, and it really brings life to the game when you get absorbed in quests like this. I EAGERLY await the next installment.
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Cthulhu on August 09, 2009, 01:33:32 PM
Thank you very much for your kind words Quaker2k9 and WorkerDrone. They mean a lot to me, as I spent a lot of time writing this quest. I would never have finished it if it wasn’t for Christian who helped me finding the final errors, causing the ‘Victory’ to be lost in space, so big thanks!

Quote
I EAGERLY await the next instalment


I actually built in the possibility of a sequel (that’s why I have the Nomad), but it will not be about hunting Nexus-6 units. I don’t have any ideas other than how I’m going to “connect” the two quests, and what the theme of the quest will be. I think I’ll wait until v. 0.6.x where you can dock, since this might be an essential part of the next quest, but I could always work around that.


Partial Spoiler alert:
-----------------------
Most of the time I spent writing this quest went to stuff you won’t notice if you just follow the normal storyline, for instance, what happens if you kill Leon but fail to get back to Commander Jameson in time? Or don’t kill him? Or if J.F. dies? What should Jameson say if you don’t act on the information you receive at bars and from neighbors, but just go back to him? (the mission says “find information, report back to me). Or if you kill Roy Batty right away? Or if you try to enter Rynkel through the other nav-point? (don’t try this unless you have a death wish)
By the way, try turning down the Commanders original proposal during your first conversation. It took me quite a while getting it right, until I realized I had to insert two hyphens (-) to get it correctly aligned, try it and you’ll find out.
However, there are no “alternative” storylines, just alternative conversations. My thought was that if you don’t know what to do you could always go back and ask the Commander.
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Quaker2k9 on August 09, 2009, 06:58:13 PM
Quote from: "Cthulhu"
By the way, try turning down the Commanders original proposal during your first conversation. It took me quite a while getting it right, until I realized I had to insert two hyphens (-) to get it correctly aligned, try it and you’ll find out.


I've seen that, looked pretty cool. Also seen what happens if you want to bail on the job of killing Zhora (the conversation on Hooper's that had the bug)... Haven't checked out the other possibilities though.
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Flyboy on August 18, 2009, 05:46:26 AM
Here's my critique of the quest. The storyline was pretty good, the fights were well done, and all but one of the dialogues were good. The only reason I gave this quest a 2 was because of the profanity. If you recall, I subtracted points from the rating of Quaker2k9's "A lady in trouble" because of language. This quest had only a couple of profanities, in only one dialogue, yet I felt that the profanity was far worse than the profanities used in "A lady in trouble". The fourth of the Ten Commandments says "You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain...". Please recall that the Ten Commandments were God's direct commands to humanity. I believe that everyone would agree that the player's response to Roy Batty was in blatant violation of this commandment. As I said in the beginning of my post, the only reason I gave this quest a low rating was because of the profanity. You obviously put a lot of hard work into this quest, and you are to be commended for that. My only objection is the profanity.

Please understand that I am not in anyway attacking you personally, as before I am only posting a critique of the quest, not a personal attack.
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Christian Knudsen on August 18, 2009, 10:25:27 AM
Please don't bring religion into this or any other thread. I understand if you don't like profanity. Fair enough. It doesn't bother me, but we're all different. What does bother me is using religion as an argument.
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Cthulhu on August 18, 2009, 12:12:59 PM
That line you're referring to is from another movie.
I'm sorry if it upset you, but since the player in this quest kills a few people I guess the fifth commandment is violated as well.
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Flyboy on August 18, 2009, 04:58:44 PM
Christian: Sorry to upset you, I did not think that my reply would be offensive, or I would not have posted it. I meant to use that not as an argument, but as a basis for my objection. I will not do so in the future.

Cthulhu: Thank you for being understanding. I don't think the player commits murder, because the player is employed by the authorities to neutralize a threat. Christian has just asked not to bring religion into the discussion, so if you want to discuss the murder versus not topic further, I would be happy to do so but not as part of the discussion here.
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Quaker2k9 on August 18, 2009, 08:49:55 PM
Don't recall the line in question at the moment but in my opinion, it's a bit different when it's a movie quote. Quotes are references and have to be put also into the context of the piece of art they refer to which in some cases...... uh, what was I going to say? Well I don't mind rude language too much, while I do understand that some people have a problem with it.

But then... "I'm gonna deep-fry your guts" isn't that nice either and the player says that to the Retros all the time...  :eeeee:
Title: Who would confuse 'Blade Runner' with 'The Running Man'?
Post by: VincentFirePony on August 18, 2009, 09:22:10 PM
Now I own both definitive versions of Blade Runner and The Running Man I like them both but how people could confuse a quest titled "The Runners" with The Running Man I'll never know... Sigh... My hats off to you for making a good quest... I like it. Here's what I've gathered of the nods to other stories from this quest so far:

Commander Jameson = ?
Nexus-6 = Blade Runner
Leon Kowalksi,Zhora, JF Sebastian= Blade Runner
Admiral Piett = Star Wars
Insys = Sounds familiar but can't place it... Lol...
Gully Foyle? = ???
Enoch Wallace = ??
Title: Re: Who would confuse 'Blade Runner' with 'The Running Man'?
Post by: Quaker2k9 on August 18, 2009, 09:28:46 PM
I'm with you there with the recognized references... Except that I have one more:

Nomad = Star Trek TOS (renegade space probe destroying stuff)

The "Tiger" poem Nomad quotes is quite popular, and it is also quoted prominently in the intro to Westwood's circa-1998 adventure genre computer game Blade Runner (which, by the way, I consider a real gem. Maybe not the right thing for every die-hard BR fan, but certainly a very nice computer game). The other quote in the Nomad ship dialogue I didn't recognize.
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Flyboy on August 18, 2009, 11:03:59 PM
True, it was a quote, but it was an obscene one and unnecessary to use. As to the context, this quote was an obscene one whether or not you put it in context. If you recall, I objected to some rude/obscene language in part 1 of "A lady in trouble". However, it was of a different nature so my objection was also of a different nature. My objection to that was simply crude/bad language, my objection to this is of a different matter entirely, which is why I had a different basis for objection. Again if you recall, my basis for objection to language used in "A lady in trouble" was simply obscene and unnecessary language. I made my basis of objection clear then, and I made it clear again in this incident. I thought it unfair to criticize somebody's work without saying why, which is why in both cases I said why I was bothered.

My point in saying all this is that what I said that Christian found offensive was not my argument, but instead my basis for objection.

True, threatening Retros that is rude, but in a different way, in that it isn't obscene or vulgar.

Christian, again I apologize for offending you, my intent was to provide my basis for objection, not to use that for an argument.
Title: Re: Who would confuse 'Blade Runner' with 'The Running Man'?
Post by: VincentFirePony on August 18, 2009, 11:16:03 PM
Cool... I don't want to give anything abt the quest away any more than I have... but I'm to the point where I'm fighting off two of them grr! got one then the other got me... Don't try to shoot someone on the other side of town when they attack you... Sigh...
Title: Re: Who would confuse 'Blade Runner' with 'The Running Man'?
Post by: Cthulhu on August 19, 2009, 12:43:05 PM
I'm glad you liked my quest. I think we should start of with the following words:

BEWARE THE REST OF THIS DISCUSSION IS A COMPLETE SPOILER FOR THE QUEST "The Runners".

Now, that being said, let us discuss the higher things in life, namely, movie quotes and science fiction. For the Commander Jameson character, you need only look to the left at my Avatar (Elite, amazing game! see Other 'Classic' Space Exploration Games (http://www.asciisector.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=494&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=).)

Now as for the "Insys" you have me confused. I'm afraid I don't really follow, unless I misspelled something in my quest?

The first verse of the Poem is by William Blake, and used in the game Blade Runner, but also in the book "The Stars my Destination" (aka. "Tiger! Tiger!") by Alfred Bester, written in 1956 about the Nomad Gully Foyle who spends some time in the asteroid belts. The second verse is only from that book, and written by the author. I thought it fitting since in that book the author uses ASCII-art! Well, almost, towards the end he has the lines attacking you from the page in a very psychedelic way, and the lines spiral and wiggle all over the pages, and form stars and whatnot. It is a fantastic book, definitely recommended, unfortunately Alfred Bester only wrote two successful/good science fiction books, the other being "The Demolished man".

But "The Nomad" could be from Star Trek as well, good catch there Quaker2k9.

Now Enoch Wallace is a very tricky one. It's from the 1964 Hugo award winning book "Way Station" by Clifford D. Simak. The book is highly recommended. It's a very nice Space Opera novel, and part of the story is about Enoch who has been alone for a century and finally becomes friend with his neighbor. (not J.F. Sebastian though...). (Don't worry, I haven't spoiled the story of the book in any way)

Well, Rutger Hauer is also from Blade Runner, but from real life, since he actually played Roy Batty. But in the quest I have him as a henchman, perhaps a pirate fighting the good cause? Well, I needed two guys for the Player and Roy to shoot at, so I put Pris and Rutger on the job.

As for Sergeant Smith, who will jump you if you don't accept to kill Zhora, he is who ever you want it to be.


hmmm, perhaps this thread should be moved to the actual discussion of the quest?http://
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Cthulhu on August 19, 2009, 12:52:29 PM
OK, I don't think anyone else on this forum except me and Flyboy knows what the line being discussed is, and the way is sounds from the description so far, with it being referred to av vulgar and obscene, I feel it should be brought to public viewing, lest I'm to be thought of as a foul deviant pervert.
So again, I hope this won't upset you as it now actually is a discussion, and therefore not a unintentional (mis)use of his name.

Code: [Select]
Character : Unless you're alive, you can't play, and if you don't play... Six, seven. Go to hell, go to heaven.
Player : What in God's holy name are you blathering about?

The first line is from the movie Blade Runner, and the second is from The Big Lebowski.

Now I respect your opinion Flyboy, you're certainly entitled to it, and I can understand that you find it offensive, but since the misuse of "God" is very common in the English language and isn't even censored in talk shows aired on Fox, I doubt anyone else will even notice it, so at this point I don't think I will remove it, since it fits very well in the dialogue, and is a perfect reference to Big Lebowski, where "The Dude" has a very similar non-coherent monologue as Roy Batty has here.

If I'm to write another quest in the future I will make sure not use that line (or similar ones) again. I didn't realize it could ruin the "quest-experience" for anyone as it has for you Flyboy. So thank's for the criticism, it's always welcome as long as it can be motivated, which it has been here.
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Christian Knudsen on August 19, 2009, 01:31:26 PM
Just for general information, I do not consider that offensive nor vulgar, so I wouldn't refrain from posting a quest with language like that. I respect other people's views, but there are limits to how much I'll censor myself and others to accommodate the few. (Note for example that certain words are automatically censored on the boards.)
Title: Re: Who would confuse 'Blade Runner' with 'The Running Man'?
Post by: Christian Knudsen on August 19, 2009, 02:18:24 PM
Quote from: "Cthulhu"
hmmm, perhaps this thread should be moved to the actual discussion of the quest?

Threads merged.
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Quaker2k9 on August 19, 2009, 09:19:30 PM
Quote from: "Cthulhu"
Code: [Select]
Character : Unless you're alive, you can't play, and if you don't play... Six, seven. Go to hell, go to heaven.
Player : What in God's holy name are you blathering about?



Oh, it's that line?! Hmmm, okay...
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Flyboy on August 19, 2009, 09:21:29 PM
Thanks for being understanding, Cthulhu. I apologize if I was too hard on you. My intent was certainly not to damage your reputation or personally attack you, but to comment on the quote in the quest.

Again, thank you for being understanding.
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: VincentFirePony on August 25, 2009, 12:39:40 AM
I enjoyed the quest. It gives variety from the backwater planets to the big city. Good use of the in-game laws so it doesn't hurt your record. One or two of the references I didn't catch but its ok. Overall, 4/5 and hope you write some more quests.
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Cthulhu on December 15, 2009, 05:34:55 PM
Now I have to rewrite my quest to include the olsen twins...

(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/blade_runner.png)
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: VincentFirePony on December 18, 2009, 12:06:45 AM
LOL. That's too funny.
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: EliteRifle on November 28, 2010, 06:03:07 PM
Nice Quest, I did rate a 3, but I still liked it.
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Cthulhu on November 29, 2010, 04:07:19 PM
Glad you played it, and liked it.
I'll probably need to update it at some point since a lot of new functions been added to the Quest language and the game itself since I wrote it.
I'm mainly thinking about the Nomad ship can't be boarded. (Well, if you do it will just have some random dude on board I guess).
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Cthulhu on January 31, 2013, 11:27:26 AM
@Hussy001 Now I'm not sure what you're meaning? We're discussing a quest:
http://www.asciisector.net/forum/quests/ctha1.qst

and it's references to Blade Runner, as that was my main inspiration when I wrote it, some years ago.  I'd recommend you to play the quest before reading the comments in this thread, but I suspect that is already too late.
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Christian Knudsen on January 31, 2013, 01:40:31 PM
That was a spam post. I've deleted it. :)
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: Aleccia Rosewater on March 11, 2017, 10:57:32 PM
How am I supposed to do the first objective within the given time limit? In my Tarsus I ran out of time on the trip back - on both tries. I imagine that if I had a faster ship... but even then I suspect that I would just barely make it in time
Title: Re: 'The Runners' by Cthulhu
Post by: GLI on March 12, 2017, 08:55:00 PM
How am I supposed to do the first objective within the given time limit? In my Tarsus I ran out of time on the trip back - on both tries. I imagine that if I had a faster ship... but even then I suspect that I would just barely make it in time

Don't use autopilot function. Hit afterburners and fly "manually" - it will let you to save a lot of time... ;)