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Posted by: GLI
« on: June 09, 2012, 04:52:40 PM »

I forgot to record movies previously. This time movie shows (see: [RS]) that I managed but Pirate fleet didn't - they stuck at jump-point (sic!). After I launched from Munroe base Pirate cap-ship were still "wrestling"... :eeeee:

It looks that was matter of "timing" - when I reach jump point then Pirate fleet will try to "improvise" something because of my "interruption".
Posted by: GLI
« on: June 09, 2012, 01:23:36 PM »

I met some pissing off situation when hostile fleet attacks me after my jump. Why they attacks me? Well, because one of capital ships rammed me while mine was still "stopped" after jump. Directly after jump! My ship was 0 (zero!) tiles from main cap-ship after my jump while fleet was still moving/maneuvering near jump-point (TC-101 from Vortex Prime).
 :blink:

After resuming from save I tried it second time and then I saw something strange. Actually there were two Pirate fleets (two [] on nav-map). When I jumped to TC-101 from Vortex Prime I was ready to avoid collision and I managed somehow but then two of Pirate cap-ships collided with each other... and all pirates started to attack me (sic!). I didn't have chance to escape or fight with two fleets in asteroid field.
 :crazy:

At third attempt to scan Nav-2 in TC-101 I was ready to see something strange. And I did! I managed to get out of jump-point's circle without collision, I saw one fleet jumped out and then lone Confed ship fire back to Pirates and (probably) hits one of fleet's ship... and I was attacked again!
 :@

I propose to change fleet behavior. Well, other "single" ships behavior too but with fleets it's especially annoying.

Fleet(s)/ships should NOT (randomly) fly/maneuver inside of jump-point's circle. Fleet(s)/ships should make fast and clear attempt to jump not just circling around changing their rate all the time. And after jump fleet(s)/ships should clear jump-point ASAP.
 :heh:
Posted by: GLI
« on: September 03, 2011, 06:00:07 PM »

I propose to change "occupant fleet" behavior. Right now this game (v0.7.1.3) allows to occupy any system if there is no "home fleet"... and it works immediately after arriving to such system.



I've encountered Pirate Fleet during jump-in to New Frankfurt. I managed with their escort Talons and then with 3 Nexus class capital ships (they're far more easier to fight than ships from missions). So, technically they didn't cleared nav-point but they was able to "occupy whole system"... :crazy:

I think it should be changed (I proposed it above):
1) First stage of invasion - hostile fleet should "make a run" around invaded system; at least they should visit (just passing) most of bases or nav-points if there is no base,
2) Second stage of invasion - after ground assault (and "removing" defenders) setting up security forces on bases.

During second stage players could be able to do blockade runner missions... :heh:
Posted by: GLI
« on: September 19, 2010, 03:20:35 PM »

Quote from: "Iltsuger"
The thing that sprang to my mind was that any force that loses its home will establish a temporary home somewhere else. That place will be away from other conquered systems, if possible, and will not produce as much repair and ship results as the main home would.  But it will serve as a staging ground for fleets to eventually retake the lost home base.

Once the home is retaken, the temporary home ceases to have the home status. If you lose the temp, another home will take its place, as long as there are potential homes remaining.


Fleets without own system could have "nomad" status. I mean they should "escape/run" from other hostile fleets (e.g. to unsettled systems) looking for new allies/ships and supply (e.g. from piracy).

Quote from: "Iltsuger"
If ALL homes are gone, then you trigger a "Reinforcements from the Homeworld" event, where many fleets just appear out of nowhere (or a one-way jumpgate that serves as a ship-generating pipeline that can never be destroyed or blocked).  Several fleets will appear in succession, and will try multiple strikes on multiple conquered worlds...


If a fleet lost own system and wasn't able to rebuild during "nomad" status then (e.g. after some defined time) should be disbanded... and gather again in better place/time. Of course if other fleet will not find and destroy them.
Posted by: Iltsuger
« on: September 19, 2010, 12:39:13 AM »

The thing that sprang to my mind was that any force that loses its home will establish a temporary home somewhere else. That place will be away from other conquered systems, if possible, and will not produce as much repair and ship results as the main home would.  But it will serve as a staging ground for fleets to eventually retake the lost home base.

Once the home is retaken, the temporary home ceases to have the home status. If you lose the temp, another home will take its place, as long as there are potential homes remaining.

If ALL homes are gone, then you trigger a "Reinforcements from the Homeworld" event, where many fleets just appear out of nowhere (or a one-way jumpgate that serves as a ship-generating pipeline that can never be destroyed or blocked).  Several fleets will appear in succession, and will try multiple strikes on multiple conquered worlds...
Posted by: GLI
« on: September 18, 2010, 10:45:03 PM »

[Previously on Development Updates]

Quote from: "Christian Knudsen"
The randomly generated ships are now based on the faction controlling the system. This means that if the pirates decide to move their fleet from TC-101 to Vortex Prime (which won't have a Confed fleet in it at first), they'll take control of Vortex Prime and that system will be swarming with pirates the next time it's generated. That situation will also mean that all production of goods on Hooper's Hope will stop, as I've now made it so that when a system is "occupied" (meaning that it is controlled by a faction different from the faction it starts out with being controlled by) it'll no longer produce goods. Consumption of goods will continue though, so the stores will eventually be emptied. At some point the Confeds will of course launch a counter-offensive and hopefully take back the system and return production levels to normal. I may change it so that production won't halt entirely but just decrease considerably, but that's all for future balancing.


I'm still wondering about "taking-control-over-system". Let's take above example: Pirate Fleet comes to "neutral" Vortex Prime system when there are no other fleets.

Will all bases/stations/planets be automatically "taken over"? Without any assault?! I mean such Pirate Fleet should at least "visit" (even without landing) e.g. Mining Base and give them "an offer"... ;)

Some bases/stations/planets could resist (not surrender at once) and then Pirate Fleet" (if strong enough) could assault them on a ground (sent troops of pirates/mercs). Player could join such fight and defend or attack "defenders". If place will be taken then Police Officers could be replaced by some kind of Pirate Guards.

Pirate Fleet shouldn't "automatically" takeover over(?) Naval Base because Confed Fleet was beaten. Such military base has its own troops and should fight much longer than Mining Base. For "resisting" bases could be offered Blockade Runner Missions.

BTW Maybe at the very beginning some systems could be "marked" as Confed's (especially around system with Naval Base) and few/other as neutral? Maybe all are Confed's systems and other factions will try to "takeover" over them?

Quote from: "Christian Knudsen"
Next up is having fleets replenish and repair their destroyed and damaged ships after a battle. One way is to return the fleet to a faction base (retros and Kilrathi will also have bases at some point), but I also need to figure out a system that doesn't require a fleet to return to a faction base -- otherwise a faction that has lost control of all its bases will be unable to rebuild fleets and will effectively have lost.


Maybe "homeless fleet" could use Supply Convoys? IMHO making one neutral system with some kind of "Shipyard Base" for all... doesn't look correct (realistic?).

With supply convoys option fixers could offer new jobs:
- "Deliver to Fleet Mission",
- "Disrupt Supply Convoy".
Posted by: GLI
« on: September 07, 2010, 06:40:39 PM »

Quote from: "Christian Knudsen"
Quote from: "GLI"
It'll be much easier if CK could make some improvements for "quick links". I mean some forums have posts with "#" sign which offers direct link to particular post.



Did you just make it or maybe it was since the very beginning? :$
Yhyhy... :eeeee:
Thanks for pointing it. :heh:

Quote from: "Iltsuger"
I haven't seen more than the first episode of the Planetes series, but I have all the manga (translated into English) and it was one of my favorite series for a while. I usually don't read manga, but it was very sober and accomplished, and seemed to be dead-set on telling a realistic story with human beings instead of idea-storage-devices like so many hard sf books.


Usually I first will watch at least 2-3 episodes ("from Internet") and then I'll buy it on DVD/BD (if available in Poland). But when I saw a short movie (AMV) about "Planetes" then I immediately ordered all DVDs. Really great series.

Quote from: "Iltsuger"
As far as adapting that type of suit for deep space, I imagine several layers, with a pneumatic system for the outer layer to allow for assisted movement. Not power armor, but just something to help you get over the stiffness of the joints that would come with such a setup.  I dunno, it's all speculative at this point but it's a possibility.  Would be cool to do EVAs, too.


IMO it could be "internal" suit for exoskeleton systems (like "Power Armor"). Since we're talking about combat then let's assume that player's character always is wearing such thing and sometimes uses additional armor (like vests and helmet).

Quote from: "Iltsuger"
Speaking of fleets, wouldn't it be cool if there were radar planets?  Like, one planet or station in each system would be its sort of "capital", where you would have a defensive last line of defense, and there you could access a system-wide scan that only a huge installation could manage to perform.


Maybe not all planets but naval bases could have better radars/scanners to fully control such sensitive/strategic system.

As for defense then IMO all bases/stations/planets should have their own security forces depends on size.

Quote from: "Iltsuger"
As far as the hostile player, I think individual ships are ignored except by patrols. Fleets go after fleets, and that coordination system would be for stopping fleets, since individual ships don't affect sovereignty.


It was mentioned that fleet will remember hostile actions from player's characters side. I wonder how fleet will react if they encounter such PsC? Will they pursue/chase PsC? Whole fleet or just sub-fleet? Maybe lone squadron only?

Quote from: "Iltsuger"
What I'm interested in learning is what might happen when fleets of SEVERAL different factions wind up meeting in the same place :)  I also missed mention of what actually determines area control, because if both sides wipe each other out, does it default to another faction?  Like, if the winning fleet is heavily damaged and you wipe them out, what happens?


Yeah, I wondered before about this. IMHO system could become "neutral" until player will be able to posses own fleet for such situations.
Posted by: Iltsuger
« on: September 07, 2010, 03:17:38 PM »

I read the first Forever War and liked it a lot.

I haven't seen more than the first episode of the Planetes series, but I have all the manga (translated into English) and it was one of my favorite series for a while. I usually don't read manga, but it was very sober and accomplished, and seemed to be dead-set on telling a realistic story with human beings instead of idea-storage-devices like so many hard sf books.

As far as adapting that type of suit for deep space, I imagine several layers, with a pneumatic system for the outer layer to allow for assisted movement. Not power armor, but just something to help you get over the stiffness of the joints that would come with such a setup.  I dunno, it's all speculative at this point but it's a possibility.  Would be cool to do EVAs, too.

Speaking of fleets, wouldn't it be cool if there were radar planets?  Like, one planet or station in each system would be its sort of "capital", where you would have a defensive last line of defense, and there you could access a system-wide scan that only a huge installation could manage to perform.  

As far as the hostile player, I think individual ships are ignored except by patrols. Fleets go after fleets, and that coordination system would be for stopping fleets, since individual ships don't affect sovereignty.

What I'm interested in learning is what might happen when fleets of SEVERAL different factions wind up meeting in the same place :)  I also missed mention of what actually determines area control, because if both sides wipe each other out, does it default to another faction?  Like, if the winning fleet is heavily damaged and you wipe them out, what happens?
Posted by: Christian Knudsen
« on: September 07, 2010, 03:08:00 PM »

Quote from: "GLI"
It'll be much easier if CK could make some improvements for "quick links". I mean some forums have posts with "#" sign which offers direct link to particular post.

Posted by: GLI
« on: September 07, 2010, 02:53:59 PM »

Back to fleets business...

[Previously on Development Updates]

Quote from: "Christian Knudsen"
- Factions can take control of systems by having a fleet in that system (and no other faction has a fleet there).


I wonder how it'll work when two hostile fleets will be in the same system:
- Will whole fleet "patrol" all nav-points in a system to find potential hostile fleet? Or to mark "system is ours"?
- What will happen if fleets will not encounter each other for long time? Will they claim a system as "their"?
- Should they use "scouts" for quick search for opponents?
- Maybe fleets have "loooong range scanners" to scan whole system at once?
- What if fleet with "LRS" and persistent memory will find "hostile" player's character? Will they immediately start pursuit/chase after such PsC?
Posted by: GLI
« on: September 07, 2010, 02:23:59 PM »

Quote from: "Iltsuger"
It's funny, there's this tendency for people to refer to earlier conversations, although it's hard to find the links. This game has an under-utilized wiki page, but there's enough density in the forums to fill a wiki, if only the forums were as easily navigable.


I'm using "Search" function and when I'll find post I was looking for I'm changing link for "quotation":
Code: [Select]
e.g.
http://asciisector.net/forum/posting.php?mode=quote&p=[number]

I'm taking [number] for making link to particular post:

http://asciisector.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=[number]#[number]

It'll be much easier if CK could make some improvements for "quick links". I mean some forums have posts with "#" sign which offers direct link to particular post.


Quote from: "Iltsuger"
I've actually reached a point now where I've maxed out both guilds, and switching to a Drayman just means slower mission resolution for a lot more money (assuming I don't ram into anyone). I've actually reached The End until someone makes a new quest, or until version 7.  Running errands for fixers doesn't appeal to me, although I haven't maxed them out yet.  I don't do assassination missions for them, though, so other than rescues there's not much that I want to do for them.


Yeah... recently I didn't played much and since "sell boosters" bug was discovered I make some test only.

Quote from: "Iltsuger"
For the null-pressure suit, wordsearch for MCP on this page:

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3m.html


"Marsskin"? It looks like some kind of space activity suit. Interesting idea, indeed. But some serous research must be done to resolve problems with keeping human body temperature. I mean problems with "terminal cold" (near 0 K) is one story and overheating caused by lack of "temperature exchange" (like for radiator) is whole different one. Some kind of "advanced goretex" material should be used. Besides IMHO time required for putting it on could be longer. Why? Well, let's imagine full body "spandex uniform" that is 2 cm thick and it is VERY tight because of "mechanical counter pressure" effects... Ouch! Without some improvements and new materials (that are able to change its volume after "receiving" some voltage) it could be very difficult.

It was well described in "The Forever War" novel by Joe Haldeman - soldier in malfunctioned Space Combat Armor almost died because of thermal shock after destruction/damage of suit's radiator.

I'm recommending Anime series "Planetes" (short review; and another). There were shown some adventures of a team of "space cleaners". Authors tried to present "space realism" as much as possible... and as contrasted with popular Anime series there are only adult persons as protagonists (the youngest "rookie" girl in team is 20 year old). I like it very much.

What is this info for? Well, for space suits of course! Official (English) trailer shows some action with space suits. Opening shows a little bit of actual conquest of space history... and idea for space suits too. It looks like improved present solution for future open space EVA.

Some pictures of space suits:











Official Japanese site (suit is well presented). Especially I like idea of "hard cover" for helmet. Every time when I see "glass bubble" I think: "One hit and game is over"... :pinch:
Posted by: Iltsuger
« on: September 07, 2010, 09:31:35 AM »

I get the feeling a lot of the stuff I mention will just go under the bridge. I don't know how to organize it properly so that it'll be seen. It makes for interesting discussions, though.

It's funny, there's this tendency for people to refer to earlier conversations, although it's hard to find the links. This game has an under-utilized wiki page, but there's enough density in the forums to fill a wiki, if only the forums were as easily navigable.

I've actually reached a point now where I've maxed out both guilds, and switching to a Drayman just means slower mission resolution for a lot more money (assuming I don't ram into anyone). I've actually reached The End until someone makes a new quest, or until version 7.  Running errands for fixers doesn't appeal to me, although I haven't maxed them out yet.  I don't do assassination missions for them, though, so other than rescues there's not much that I want to do for them.

For the null-pressure suit, wordsearch for MCP on this page:

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3m.html
Posted by: GLI
« on: September 06, 2010, 11:12:06 PM »

Quote from: "Iltsuger"
You really like to use quotes :)


It's because my poor English. IMO it looks better than using phrases "so called" or "if I say so". Some terms are more metaphors than actual meaning of typed words... :$

Quote from: "Iltsuger"
I'm not sure where you get the idea that a small hole will decompress a whole ship, or that a tiny hole in a space suit will kill someone instantly. It doesn't work that way in real life, if that's what you mean, especially with small holes.


That text is a paraphrase (or even direct citation; I don't remember) from one of loading screens of "Vegastrike" game. :heh:

"Laser Pistol" that is able to  make serious wounds or even to kill human makes holes big enough to emptying space suit in very short time. Bullets makes even bigger holes (or two holes: inlet and outlet).

Quote from: "Iltsuger"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi1_1l7M8FA


If we're talking/writing about "MythBusters" I'm reminding that it's a SHOW. Yes, they're using science but their "methodology" is... debatable. E.g. in this particular episode they "forgot" to tell what forces are affecting a hull of FLYING plane (and its windows!). They "forgot" to tell about underpressure that affects (works on?) hull and widows(!) in flying plane. Such forces could destroy "glass" of window and then rest of the plane.

Did you heard about de Havilland Comet world's first commercial jet airliner? It had some nasty crashes due to metal fatigue. Do you know i.a. where (which part of plane)? Windows! First planes had "square" windows. Tensions in corners of windows caused faster than planned metal fatigue... and planes where shred to parts. Since that incidents passengers jet planes have windows with "rounded corners".

Quote from: "Iltsuger"
You could also have zero-difference thermal suits, which are basically weird but plausible alternatives to the puffy suits we're used to seeing.  If you get shot in one of those, it's cold, but you don't lose any pressure on the inside because there's none.  All the pressure that's on you comes from the constriction of the suit itself.


In open space without proper pressure in suite thermal "add-ons" will not keep humans life for long. Human body is very sensitive for changes of pressure and we're talking about "absolutely zero" pressure.

Quote from: "Iltsuger"
As far as science fiction fantasy land, which is what this is, you could say that the suits have some degree of self-sealing, but eventually heat and air will leak out, so you get an increased loss of oxygen.  I think it would be a fun complication, but I like the kinds of movies that show this sort of thing.


Yeah, sometimes we need "a big hook to hang disbelief". For games we're assuming that Combat Armors can take some hits before destruction (even in vacuum space).

Quote from: "Iltsuger"
As for grenades, say they need oxygen to detonate, that they're not made for use in a vacuum.  We already have boarding tubes that are unusually sturdy.


Present regular grenades can detonated under water. IMHO it means that they don't need oxygen to detonate (see: combustion of high energy materials). BTW VincentFirePony played with it, right?

Oh! One more thing. In open space with temperature near 0 K present grenades could not work... because of temperature. :hehe:

Quote from: "Iltsuger"
Think about it in terms of gameplay.  I think that's an important framework to use.  Will this add an extra bit of challenge, cool deaths for the enemy, different tactics, reliance on different weapons...  that sort of thing.  We can always come up with science fiction excuses later, while we're in the middle of having fun.


Yes, I'm thinking about gameplay. Realism too but when some solutions/ideas are "radical" or "ridiculous" (IMHO!) it's better to sacrifice it.

Please don't stop writing ideas! Maybe some will be used by CK or at least other users could "invent" something similar.
Posted by: Iltsuger
« on: September 06, 2010, 05:46:29 PM »

You really like to use quotes :)

I'm not sure where you get the idea that a small hole will decompress a whole ship, or that a tiny hole in a space suit will kill someone instantly. It doesn't work that way in real life, if that's what you mean, especially with small holes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi1_1l7M8FA

You could also have zero-difference thermal suits, which are basically weird but plausible alternatives to the puffy suits we're used to seeing.  If you get shot in one of those, it's cold, but you don't lose any pressure on the inside because there's none.  All the pressure that's on you comes from the constriction of the suit itself.

As far as science fiction fantasy land, which is what this is, you could say that the suits have some degree of self-sealing, but eventually heat and air will leak out, so you get an increased loss of oxygen.  I think it would be a fun complication, but I like the kinds of movies that show this sort of thing.

As for grenades, say they need oxygen to detonate, that they're not made for use in a vacuum.  We already have boarding tubes that are unusually sturdy.

Think about it in terms of gameplay.  I think that's an important framework to use.  Will this add an extra bit of challenge, cool deaths for the enemy, different tactics, reliance on different weapons...  that sort of thing.  We can always come up with science fiction excuses later, while we're in the middle of having fun.
Posted by: GLI
« on: September 06, 2010, 11:13:57 AM »

Space suits like some "Combat Armors" in e.g. Mass Effect game. IMO right now the game has vests and helmets like for "planetary ground fight" only.

I'm against "making holes" in armor while in "vacuum". Something like this could just "kill" gameplay. Why? Because "even small leak can decompress whole ship"... let alone "small" body armor suit when one shot means immediately death of player's character.

The same for using heavy rifles and grenades inside of space ship and docking tube. Every "way out shot" or shrapnel means a hole in ship's hull... and sudden decompression or even destruction of a ship.

In case of exploding grenade we have "drastically increased pressure" too what means "extreme stress" for nearby ship's constructions (e.g. docking tube, air lock doors).

For saving gameplay I'm decided to "sacrifice realism"... in this case.  :pinch: